Keith Goodrum

Stephen Dean is an outstanding copywriter & marketer. About a week ago on his blog he posted an offer to be interviewed, and you could post it on your blog. Incredibility only 3 people responded!

For me it was a no brainer. Anytime someone with Stephen’s knowledge & experience will allow me to fire 10 questions about their about their specialty… I’m there.

Hope you enjoy the interview, and I highly recommend Stephen products. You’ll get a lot of value out of them no matter what level your copywriting or marketing skills are at.

What do you feel is the most important part of a sales letter?

(Stephen) The most important part, as far as where the most readers are lost, is the headline and deck copy. This is where you have to get their attention by saying something unique, timely, useful and specific.

The headline is well known for being very important, however, so I like to mention proof. Proof is very important in a sales letter,whether it be testimonials, credentials, case studies etc. You need
to have it and many people leave it out.

The long sales letter has taken a beating over the past couple of years in certain circles, do you feel it still has a place in online marketing? Why or Why not?

(Stephen) Yes. And there are other factors to take in to consideration. For example, if you build a great relationship with your blog readers you’re not going to need as much copy to sell to them. The sales process started on your blog, before they got to the sales page. You’ve already provided the proof or credibility that they need to see.

But what about someone who’s never heard of you or your product? They need to go through the sales process too, so you’ve got to start at the beginning.

What is one mistake you see repeated over and over again in most sales letters/web sites?

(Stephen) I see a lot. I created a product based on 7 of the most common mistakes, called “7 Copy Sins”. A big mistake is not demonstrating how you’re different. If your headline could describe 10 different products you’re in trouble.

Another very common mistake is not applying scarcity, or giving the reader a real reason to act immediately. This can be as simple as giving away a valuable bonus to the next 10 customers, but many people don’t do it. That’s why I just released “Digital Scarcity” to give some real examples of how to add this tactic.

You hear people complain about copywriting containing too much hype… How you do write compelling copy while avoiding hype?

(Stephen) Well, a couple of things. You want your copy to be energetic usually, but hype without substance won’t work. You can avoid hype by being specific and backing up every claim you make. Also, you’d probably be best dropping exclamation points except for when you really mean it.

What place does testing hold in your copywriting?

(Stephen) I try to convince all of my clients to add testing to their sales pages. And I stay on to help them do it. I have my own split test software at http://www.easysplittest.com, and I also recommend James Brausch’s Muvar.

And one thing people should probably do more of is testing before they rite the copy. If you can send 1000 visitors to a squeeze page that gives out a free report, you can find a lot of information about which headline or angle will work the best. And that could shape how you write the rest of the copy.

What areas do you like test first, second, third?

(Stephen) The headline is always first. And an extension of that is testing the lead copy, essentially what comes after “Dear Friend” in your typical sales letter. And testing the price is an overlooked gem.

What are the pros & cons regarding people writing their own copy?

Well, a plus is that it’s cheaper initially. And if you’re not getting a lot of traffic, it can be hard to make the leap to paying big dollars for someone like me.

So if you enjoy it, it’s a great skill to learn and apply. But if your skills are lacking it can be very costly to continue to send visitors to a sales page that’s bound to lose sales compared to professionally written copy.

Could you share some of your favorite copywriting tips, or tactics to help boost conversions?

(Stephen) Well here are some things to think about…

Think about what makes your product or service different, and then make sure the difference is very clear in the sales letter. If you’re just more of the same, why would they keep reading?

Consider raising your prices, there’s a good chance a higher price point will actually convert better. In my tests, $97 converts much better than $77. But you do need to test.

Every time you make a claim in your sales letter, immediately back up your claim with proof.

Do you have any tips on writing headlines?

(Stephen) Yes, if you’re a beginner keep it simple. I’d stick to common templates like “How To” and “Discover…”

Then be specific. If it’s “How To Make Money Online.”, change it to “How To Make Money Online In 74 Minutes Or Less.” And better yet, “How You Can Make Up To $253.00 In 74 Minutes Or Less.”

The specifics helps make your product unique. You couldn’t place that last headline on any product. But just think of how many products that first headline could apply to…

What do feel is the best way someone can improve their copywriting?

(Stephen) 3 ways. Read copy, write copy, and read about writing copy. I’ll often track down expert copywriters like Michel Fortin and Gary Halbert and read some of their copy before I start on a project. That’s still a part of my normal routine.

Then, of course, you need to practice. So just writing your own copy by mimicking what you see from the experts is good practice.

But the best way to get direction is through copywriting books and courses. My product at www.2hoursalesletter.com will give you the basics of copywriting extremely fast. And www.7copysins.com is the follow up that attempts to preempt common mistakes you’re likely to
make.

Then I have the advanced courses at www.tappingmichelfortinsbrain.com where I let readers have access to my private conversations with Michel Fortin about copywriting.

And of course I address copywriting tactics often at www.stephensblog.com.

For print books, One of my favorites is “Tested Advertising Methods” by John Caples. It’s quite affordable at Amazon.com.

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Reading Ryan Healy’s blog post today Do Questions Work As Headlines? got me thinking…

Questions have always been a great sales tool for me over the years. Asking questions allowed me to customize each sales presentation to the customers needs. And of course, if you can show the customer how your product/service meets their needs… The sales is usually a forgone conclusion.

Questions work very well in selling for several reasons. First, Usually the person who asks the questions controls the direction of the conversation. Second, Questions are an important tool to qualify the customer, and gain important information.

Here is what Tom Hopkins says about asking questions:

The most powerful diagnostic tools used by all people in sales are questions. Like a doctor, your use of questions begins with general areas of need. Then, based on the answers you are given, you narrow your questions down to where you can readily determine the right cure or solution for the clients’ needs.

Asking Questions in your copy can usually get the opposite results.

Many of the top copywriting trainers teach that you should avoid asking questions. The idea is that you could get the wrong answer and lose the reader.

Putting a question in your headline is considered risky at best. Ryan Healy confirms this statement in his blog post. However, it’s not always the case. Recently, He tested a question in a headline and he was sure it would lose the split test. However the question headline won. Here is what he said:

Recently, I conducted a headline split-test for an upcoming real estate conference. The headline that won by a long shot was a question: “Would You Like 2008 to Be the Year in Which You Build the Foundations for Long-Term Real Estate Wealth?”

Why do you think this headline won?

I believe this question won for a simple reason. It entered the conversation that was already going on in the prospects mind. Traditionally people have used real estate to build long term wealth. The last year or so, has been rough in the real estate market. So, this is a question that real estate investors are asking themselves a lot lately.

This ultimately proves that there are exceptions to every rule. Don’t be afraid to use questions, but tread lightly.

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It sounds funny to say that, but some people have that attitude. I’ve seen people actually say they can pick a winner just by reading the letter.   Nothing like a healthy dose of misguided confidence!

If that were true, then the big direct marketing companies like Boardroom, Phillips and Rodale wouldn’t need to test. All they would have to do is find these people, hire them, lock them in a room and make them read sales letters all day.

Imagine how much money they would save by not testing… they would have these folks pick out the winners and boom they would mail out the winning sales letters and rake in the big bucks.

If It Were Only That Simple…

It reminds me of when the newspaper will have the local stock pros in a competition with a monkey, or a dart board. They will give each contestant say $10,000.00 in play money and let them pick stocks. The contest will usually run for a couple of months. Each week they publish how each contestant is doing.

The paper will show a picture & profile of each contestant. It’s fun to read the stock pros confidently discussing their picks. They talk about past performance, P/E ratios, debt to income… Then the paper shows a picture of the monkey with his thoughts - Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh!

The best part is the monkey often will do as good if not better than the stock pros. This goes to show how unpredictable the stock market can be.

And Can Be Said For Picking Sales Letters.

You can never know how your customers are going to respond until it goes out there. They are anything if unpredictable.

The moral of this post…

Testing & tracking is the only way to find a winning sales letter. One of the easiest ways to test is by doing an A/B split test. Google has an excellent split tester called “Website Optimizer”. It’s free to use, and easy to setup. I’ve created a procedure videos showing you how to set an A/B split test with Google’s Website Optimizer. Here is the link to the A/B Split test set up procedure.

I forgot to mention the procedure videos are also free.

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April 15th is the perfect example of a powerful deadline. In the USA, we all know this date, the mention of it can raise the hairs on the back of your neck. Of course April 15th is the deadline for filing your taxes.

This time of year brings about two types of filers: the one that rushes to file early because they’re likely owed a fat tax refund; and the other type of filer that drags their feet because they likely owe more taxes or just good at procrastination.

The early filers set a self imposed deadline and get their taxes done. They want their money now (albeit overpaid to the gov’t in the first place) and rush to get it back as quickly as possible.

The procrastinators, who likely owe money, wait until April 15th to file their taxes. The country is buzzing with people rushing around trying to beat the IRS deadline. You can feel the energy in the air…..counting down to midnight, driving up to the one post office in the area that’s still open to provide the all important April 15th postmark….making the deadline.

So why does the IRS impose a deadline?

Because they know if they waited for people to get around to filing, about 80% would put it off indefinitely. Not only has the IRS set a deadline, but they impose stiff penalties if you miss it.

When marketing to my window cleaning customers I was afraid to impose a deadline. I thought it would limit the number of customers that would respond to my offer. I thought a deadline would limit my potential income because there would be customers who missed out.

I Finally Started Using Deadlines… But I Screwed It UP!

I finally put a deadline on my marketing material… But I was a chicken, and had the offer expire in 6 weeks! So, guess what happened?

Well, for the first 5 weeks nothing. Then on the 6th week I would receive a couple of phone calls. But, the last 48 hours the phones got busy. Customers waited for the deadline before they called. I ran the same ad 3 more times, each time with the same 6 week expiration. Finally (18 weeks later) the light bulb switched on… I can be a slow learner.

After reviewing my customer’s response patterns, I realized I had to set a shorter deadline. I couldn’t wait 6 weeks for customers to get around to calling me. I needed to create a sense of urgency that they would miss out on a great deal if they didn’t call me a.s.a.p. I got bold and put a one week deadline on my coupon. I was scared to make a deadline so short, and was convinced it would backfire. Boy was I ever wrong. The flyers went out, and the response was great. The shorter deadline had created a greater sense of urgency.

Of course, I pretended I knew it would work all along. I had found the optimal deadline.

Short deadlines will really put fire into your offers. Don’t be afraid to use them, and it will add a sense of urgency into your offer.

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Did you know that within each business lies an untapped goldmine waiting to be found? And with rare exception it’s sitting there gathering dust waiting to be dug up.

The funny part is this goldmine is usually the easiest money most businesses will ever make. In fact this goldmine is usually begging to be mined. Loudly in most cases. But, the business owner will bow his neck, and ignore this goldmine at all costs.

It’s the easiest to find.

It’s the easiest to market to.

And the easiest to convert into sales.

Have you guessed what it is?

This untapped goldmine is past customers. OK, before you click away let me explain why you should focus on your past customers.

You created a marketing strategy to attract a certain type of customer. Intentional or not, you are bringing in a certain type of customer. Past customers fit very well into your demographics… That’s how they became customers in the first place.

Past customers have already responded positively to your marketing. Since you know how to sell to them… it’s easier to make a second sale.

They see you as an expert in solving one of their problems. In their eyes you have authority & credibility.

You have already established a relationship.

They are eager to do business with you again. Heck, they are looking for reasons to throw money at you. Why disappoint them?

Guarantee your highest conversions by marketing to your past customers.

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Testing is vital to the profitability of your online business. It’s the only true way to validate how well any ad will perform. You can get a parade of experts, friends and peers to review an ad and they will give different opinions. Notice I said opinions, because that’s all they are. Yes, some people’s opinions are better than others. Because they have varying degrees of experience and skill, but all the same they are still opinions.

Testing will give the opinion that matters the most… the opinion of your customers. The customers will vote with their wallets. If they like your ad, then they will buy… If not, then you don’t make any money. It’s as simple as that, and you must test to find out what your customers want.

Many of you are nodding your head in agreement. You understand the value you get from testing different headlines, optin forms or even pricing. You’ve seen other people report the results of their testing, and how much it has helped. Intellectually you know testing needs to be done, but many are not. Why? I’ve heard many excuses, and some of them I’ve used. Like:

“I don’t have time.”
“I don’t get enough traffic.”
“It’s too much of a hassle.”
“I never can get the *&?@*~%! Software to work right.”
“I’m not sure how to set it up.”

Here’s the answer to your prayers…

OK, so maybe it’s not the answer to your prayers. I realize that testing is not a huge priority for most people. But I do know this… You will become hooked once you start testing. You see the results, and start trying to figure out new ways to improve a page.

I’ve been working with a split-testing software that is free, you don’t have to download anything and it’s easy to setup and run… Once you know how. So, to help you with that; I’ve created some videos that take you step by step through the process of setting up an A/B Split test with this software. You can easily set-up your own by following my new product Set-Up A/B Split Test.

The videos are free so head on over there and check it out…

Here’s the link again: Set-Up A/B Split Test.

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Eric Graham just posted at his blog about testing headlines with Glyphius…. And it is exciting news. He tested over a 12 month period. He said the showed that 70.1% of the time Glyphius predicted the winner.

However what shocked him was that there were only ties 11.6% of the time. You can usually expect around 1/3rd of the time to be a tie. I find that significant, because it mean you can expect better & quicker results from your testing. When you get a tie that means that the headline tested didn’t beat, or lose against the control.

So, you have effectively gained nothing. The time & traffic spent on the test are in a way wasted. And as a result you have to go back to the drawing board. It is much better to get a winner or a loser… you want a yes or a no.

This comes as no surprise to me, because Glyphius looks at profitable web sites, and not profitable web sites. James Brausch is the creator of Glyphius. It compares the ads, and provides a score based on how similar your ad is to profitable ads. The higher the score, the better chance your ad has at being profitable.

Now, you must still input the words… Glyphius won’t do the copywriting for you. But the best part is that you are getting reassurance that what you have written is on the money.

I’ve come to realize that you really can’t tell how an ad or a sales letter will perform just by reading it. The only opinion that counts is when someone takes out their wallet and votes by buying.

But it looks like Glyphius is the next best thing.

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Many times during my sales career I would be on a sales call and would change my presentation.  Why?  Because I would pick up on some clues that I was losing the customer.  They would suddenly look away, become quite, or make a face… Something would tip me off.  So, I would go in a different direction.  Maybe at one point they said that saving money was important, or casually mentioned quality was a huge concern.  Then I would ask why is it important to save money, or what do you look for in quality.  I was adjusting my presentation to hit the hot button of the customer.  It’s called qualifying, or asking probing questions. 

In a face to face selling situation you have the benefit of instant feedback.  People give you clear clues as to what is working in your presentation and what is failing.  It’s easy to change the direction of your presentation.  Typically you have the opportunity to make several shifts before the sales call is over.  And you have the advantage of the customer rooting for you to make the sale if they you have established a bond with them.  If the customer likes you they will let you make mistakes, and still make the sale.

This is not the case with sales letters.  The writer has to pick a message and head in that direction.  Using persuasive language the writer has to pick, and choose the best sales presentation.  They don’t have the benefit of instant feedback, or the ability to change the direction of the letter.  The writer uses a combination of knowledge, experience and gut feeling.  Hopefully, when the writer is done the letter will be put up, and start making sales.  The reason I hopefully is because no one is really sure how a letter will do until it is put out there. 

The problem is that most of the readers of a sales letter will not purchase.  They will take a quick glance, not relate and click away.  It is usually in the high 90’s that will choose not to buy.  Think about it only, 1 or 2 out of 100 will buy.  Not a very high closing ratio. 

I’m amused when I hear people taking a look at a sales letter and boldly predicting the success or failure of a letter.  It’s a healthy dose of confidence, maybe too much confidence.  Ryan Healy discusses this at his blog on copywriting.  It’s titled Unmerited Confidence.  The one thing I’ve learned is that it is hard to predict the actions of people. 

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Chicken or the egg, which came first? This is discussion you hear about often - traffic vs. conversion. There are two camps on this discussion. The side that say that you should get as much traffic as possible and live with the low conversions. Then the side that says you should get your conversions up before you start getting traffic. Which one is right? I believe that both are correct… to a point.

The argument that you can get traffic and let the conversions go up over time has a very valid point. After all you need sales to make money. And you can suffer with low conversions as long as you can get the traffic to maintain the sales goals you need, or have set. After all not everyone is a copy writing wizard. Massive amount of traffic can more than make up for any lack of copy writing skills. Good point… to a degree.

What if you are in a low traffic niche? Let’s say you are selling products to left-handed golfers from Topeka, KS. How big is your market? It probably is not enough to waste poor conversions. The main concern with this is maximizing each unique visitor. Every person you loose is one less opportunity to make a sale.

On the other side of the coin is make sure you have your conversions optimized before your start driving traffic. That also makes perfect sense. Why would you want to drive traffic if you are going to waste all those visitors? You shouldn’t let any opportunity slip through your fingers.

Which do you think I would side with? You probably think that I going to fall on the side of get your conversions before traffic. After all I’m a copywriter, and my focus should be on converting traffic. Your guess would be wrong.

Traffic and conversions go hand in hand. Or like Forest Gump said; “Two peas in a pod!” Focusing on one over the other will cause you problems somewhere down the road. Both are key to online success… You can’t have one without the other. James Brausch has said it all about traffic + copywriting.(Plus product, but that’s for another article) Ken McCarthy coined the phrase traffic plus conversions equals profits. Both must get equal attention, and your online marketing efforts will be much easier.

Which one have you been focusing on at the exclusion of the other? I’d bet most of us have at one point or another been guilty of this. Now, that you know this… what are you going to do about it? Continue to make excuses and ignore traffic over conversions, or conversions over traffic? Hey it’s your call…

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